Crazy Wisdom
Andrew Murray Dunn, CEO of Siempo, How can mindfulness and software help us to remain more present in times of rapid technological change?
- Consciousness & Philosophy
- Breath, Body & Stress
- mindfulness
- meditation
- digital wellness
- intentional technology
- presence
- philosophy of technology
About this episode
(10-20 minutes)
Andrew talks about his struggle with technology starting when he was 12. He grew up in the suburbs and had a sibling rivalry. Technology created a happy space where he could go to get away from these things.
Technology helped Andrew connect with others, but the problem was that he was always on. At the time he thought it was great.
He accidentally got disconnected from technology for a week and experienced presence and being aware of all the things that were going on when not connected to technology. He realized he had an issue and started to develop his own methods for staying mindful when using technology.
He developed a way of taking notes offline when he wasn't connected to the phone using low-technology but then realized that a hardware device would be way better.
This lead him to create Siempo which is a layer on top of a smartphone operating system that turns your phone experience into a more intentional but less distracting interface.
Stewart explains the evolution of how technology is evolving quickly and human beings are adapting to it slowly. Siempo and Andrew are attempting to now harness technology to mediate the harmful effects that technology created.
Mindfulness leads to the meta skill of where to place attention and how to prevent distraction from becoming chronic. It can enhance the tech that is being built
(20-30 minutes)
We talk about how technology plays itself out differently in diverse cultures. In Latin America, it seems that there is a strong family-oriented culture. They end up using a lot of technology and are some of the heaviest users of social media. Yet they use it differently.
We discuss how its easier to take the social media off the phone, but when using the computer it's hard to regulate because of the way this technology is presented to users.
Andrew mentions that Facebook seems to have engineered a system to get people addicted to new information in a very stick way. Mindfulness helps us to step in and cut this process out before it begins.
He mentions that the social conditioning that humans have always undergone is now mediated by technology and we are having hyper-targeted versions of it on Facebook. Its a much more pervasive form of societal conditioning.
Stewart asks Andrew about how maybe what we need is a lot more educational opportunities to teach people how to use technology mindfully. Andrew says that it is probably a mix. He mentions a program in Vermont that has its students sign a pledge to not drink or do drugs. In exchange, they get access to a lot of yoga and mindfulness programs as well as a special dorm.
(30-40 minutes)
Andrew notices a trend that Wisdom 2.0 conference is full of older people but hasn't found many young people getting into mindfulness solutions. He says that the banks, tech, and consulting are still taking most young people straight out of college because of high salaries.
Stewart brings up the idea that many older people have a difficulty adapting to a new world with rapidly evolving technology. This is a difficult problem for the future. Stewart says that maybe its easier to get younger people to adapt faster than older people. Andrew says its still important to get older people as well.
Andrew mentions some figures about how children who grow up in single-parent homes are much more likely to spend most of their waking life on their phone.
Stewart asks Andrew about some of the practices he uses to get himself back to the present moment. He says that he has triggers that remind him. He has a google chrome app that reminds him to breathe every fifteen minutes. He has a fake watch that says "Now" on it. He makes sure that he takes time for rest. He downloads meditations that he can use offline.
Andrew talks about how his meditation practice has evolved. He mentions his first retreat where he was taught that meditation is about focusing the mind on an object, which can be anything (the breathe, the body, etc).
Episode transcript
At Wisdom 2.0, the founder of Daybreaker had a really striking statistic that in the US and the UK we touch each other on average, two times per conversation when we meet. And when we depart In Mexico, it's 153 times per conversation.
Hi, my name is Stuart Allsop, and this is my podcast, Crazy Wisdom, where we talk about how mindfulness, meditation and yoga can help us to become more creative in the face of rapid technological change and societal upheaval. Today I interviewed Andrew Murray Dunn, the CEO of Siempo, a software layer for your phone that makes your relationship with it more intentional and less distracting. It's a technology that aims to empower rather than distract. I learned a lot from interviewing Andrew, particularly about how these ancient practices of meditation can help us to stay present in a constantly shifting environment as the pace of change becomes more rapid. And it seems that mindfulness is one of the most potent resources we have left to retain our humanity. I really hope you enjoy this interview, and please subscribe on itunes.
I think I innately was drawn to mindfulness. I remember times in my childhood where I would pause and try to be present, to stay in this moment, and it can never last more than a few seconds. But I recall doing that on a pretty regular basis. And I also. I also recall wandering off many times on family vacations, you know, from friend groups, just to kind of be by myself. So I was often drawn to solitude and things like sunsets. Some of my friends know me as the sunset chaser. That's always just been a great way to. And I often do it alone, but sometimes with friends. A great way to be in nature, you know, watch the subtle changes of something happening and be in that awe place. But it wasn't until college, a partner of mine, her family was into Tibetan Buddhism. So I got some bits and pieces of that through her. And I remember the first time meditating with her father. It was like, oh, my God, this is incredible. And he gave me a book. And she and I would meditate once in a while. But outside that container, I really had little exposure to explore that. I had no community, no mentorship or resources. There was one really strange instance where I was at her family's house. I had been drinking a lot the night before, and I woke up kind of still tipsy in this weird hungover state. And we got in a big Fight. I went home to my house and something happened where it kicked off a week of what I would describe as real flow. In everything I was doing, I was just hyper present, bringing my full self, kicking ass, showing up, you know, all these crazy ideas. And then it stopped abruptly. And I spent a few months trying to get back to it. I didn't really know what to make of it. And it wasn't until a few weeks ago at a founder meditation that Will Kabat Zinn described a similar experience to explain how meditation can make you more accident prone. You might not, you know, you could meditate for thousands of hours and nothing might happen, but you're more likely to tap into a frequency or something. And I was like, wow, that, you know, I'm not really sure what happened at that house that day. You know, there were lots of prayer flags around and it was definitely a higher vibration environment. But anyways, fast forward a couple years and then I had the privilege of working with a friend in India on a business. I took that opportunity out of purely wanting to see the world. No spiritual desires. Then of course, living in India, things happen. And it was really a week of solo travel where I found myself sitting with Hare Krishna as I'm going to all these far flung esoteric physical and mental places. And I think my, my interest in meditation really leveled up from there because I just, I knew that there was more going on than what's going on and I wanted to explore that deeper. So that was four years ago. And I mean, it's crazy how it takes a journey like that to really adopt the practice because it wasn't until two or three years after that that I'm doing it regularly.
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